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How the Coronavirus Pandemic Compares to the Spanish Flu | The New Yorker

welcome to the twenty twenty Hutchins for hosted by Harvard university's Hutchins centre for African and African American research and media partner PBS newshour now Alphonse Fletcher university professor and director of the Hutchins centre for African and African American research Henry Louis gates junior I'm mainly those gates union and gives me an enormous amount of pleasure to welcome you at least virtually the old willing church in Edgartown Massachusetts I'm his vineyard which almost like a car I really own fantasy island each August the Hutchins centre for African and African American research at Harvard brings together a panel of brilliant thinkers from the world to public service politics journalism in the academy to discuss the most important topics of the day in this house is we can't conveniences you for reasons that don't need to be elaborated upon we're fortunate the technology allows us in our partner the PBS newshour to reach thousands of you testing noon this year then we'll be no different in some significant ways this afternoon we're bringing together a panel brilliant thinkers under the same age guidance of my dear friend storey journalist in civil Rights activist Charlene hundred goes to examine from a multitude of perspectives America's racial reckoning the pandemics in the election we do this through the generosity of many people but none more generous in more committed to our mission to foster scholarship research in public engagement on African American history and culture then our founders leading WHS who are the largest donors to our field in the history of our field from the bottom of my heart and one thing going in Debbie both for the General Assembly but especially for their friendship a few words to preface today's panel the twenty twenty has proven to be in agonising inflexion point in our national storey Brychan Americans especially have been devastated by a convergence of endemics over nineteen and life in death crises in the policing of black back the economic precariousness so many black I was in the impossible to look away from racial disparities in both health and education brown in black people in the United States have suffered disproportionately from kova nineteen in both deaths in infection rates likewise in twenty twenty as in countless years before brown and black people separate disproportionately from police violence in the persistent economic social and physical devaluation of our lives the protests that exploded across our country to our world in the wake of George Floyd's murder didn't occur in a vacuum the current moment when all eyes were trained on a inequality rooted in slavery and never dismantled even after emancipation reconstruction the gains of the civil rights movement in two of an African American president in now especially with the same day losses to giants of the civil rights movement the reference CTV in in congressman John Lewis we must confront the diverting directions our country may take in the wake of the November election now less than one Hundred Days away we do not want to be driven back to the place where we were a place that John Lewis the conscience not only in Congress the contents of our country bribes so employment is a place wherein I quote fear constrained us like an imaginary present in troubling thoughts a potential brutality committed for enough on understandable reason or the bars the question I come back it was this must inequality in brutality B. R. national legacy we look at my national state and local leaders for solutions to entrench problems in remedies for the many diseases that afflict us given the way these topics strikes is poignant than I'm making these comments from the old whaling church because it sends me the weekend I'd gather here today as we gathered from more than twenty years forty nine just our physical health at stake spiritual health of this country three hundred million people that its stake as well the upcoming election and the way we understand the pandemics in relation to the election will shape our health in our well being both as a nation and as individuals it will determine house move or house Tony the road only since racial reckoning will be and now starling hundred go will guide us in our esteemed Penelas through these difficult complex in front questions thank you so much proposal gate out until welcome all of you ideas and panel and say how happy I am that all of you will be included on this amazing there I say contraption but both to the panel I hope that viewers have Google do because each of you has a resume that will take up this entire proprioception so with the I'm going to be brief as you heard hours team leader layout the issues we hope to get clarity on and when I think I'll will agree is one of the most polarised moments in our history although to be sure they have been others but this moment is where we are going to begin our conversation so just to remind our steam panellists which begins now just to tell you about what your thoughts on all of these issues but you know my friend is those of you who've been on this panel before I want your comments to be Paisley and brief and also I have my pity and brief virtual work here so words I probably don't have to quote but will anyway and let me add the coming from our newest and that skip just referred to John Lewis so let's all disagree without being disagreeable and so too our panel so Michael singleton is a political consultant writer commentator and recently a former Republican you're attending is the president and CEO of the centre for American progress and also if the centre for American progress action fund where she focuses on how both organisations both organisations can fulfil their missions to expand our for all Americans Charles blow is a New York times op ed column this an author of five showed up in my bones and the word is he's working on another book then he didn't play to write so we don't know anything about network Vernon Johnson says been a member of the Georgia house of representatives since twenty sixteen also he's a Democrat but he's also endorse president trump's twenty twenty reelection bid Donna Brazile is a political strategy is former campaign manager who served twice as acting chair of the Democratic National Committee she's also a regular commentator on fox news David Brooks is a New York times columnists and PBS newshour commentator who recently shared his views about racial divisions on my PBS news hour series looking at solutions to racism many had some and finally Lawrence A. K. A. Larry bubble is the W. EBV two boys professor of social sciences and the dean of social science at Harvard University with research focusing on the intersection of social psychology social inequality politics and race up to my first question this is not the first time we've had a health pandemics but probably the worst in our lifetime so want to be given by asking each of you how has it affected too and your thoughts about equity and justice in our country as outlined by our leaders and while I know it's a big question I'm going to ask you not only to observe my PhD in brief work but in memory of our departed friend as I said before I would encourage a all to disagree with being disagreeable soul let me start with you our brother blow what are your thoughts on my question you you repeat the question a strolling informed okay look the question is what are you thinking about as you think about these twin pandemics how they affected you and your perceptions about equity and justice in our country our bush somewhere in my mind the the recoveries broadly speaking moving to a different kind of a chapter after George for its deputy the D. warring onto the streets of all sorts of people a fascinating for not we should try to figure out why because George was even that first reflect research about this problem but on the but because the papermaking all these young people work indoors during all of the right of passage had been eliminated there are no questions there were no stop festivals there don't they are you don't everything couldn't stop was going to happen to be part of what's going on everybody trapped inside it was probably a social justice cabin fever affect I believe that but I was proud of this but also it wants people to reconsider their position on racial N. whether or not that actually moves forward well there is the stained after people can go back to the original question the project themselves your your kind of dying to know what did happen but we get beyond current performances talking is them the reaction in Europe changing that based on a better price and above so but pending streets in you know in the end now allowed to deal no this costs did you know that but actually changing the reason is that police often interest have to interact with these black men women whoever will actually cost you something because it is really an insistence ruining our economics it is rooted in power and what you get to that Europe that is that is the question do we have to get to bet okay I think the we'll let you be the moderator Nexon conducts a really good question thank you so much and we'll come back to you but Jones what are your thoughts about the pending Meg twenty pound MAX and how to affected you in your perceptions about our country in particular but John can you hear me welcome back to you in a minute from Michael singleton looking yeah I can hear you now yeah and I can see you as well all these are the questions yes I did first of all let me just thank you mail moderate and refers to gains in the distinguished payments and all those who were too million you know it is twenty it is a seven twenty our issues if you came back the separate first of all the pending because something we've never dealt with before in modern times I'm curious the president is or who the size of are or other health have the ministries are just a very unique prices in winning middle trying to strike a balance between having a normal life going to work this is cool in other things at the same time trying to be healthy and not getting this virus get the barriers in get sick virtually some have have passed so it's a very big thing are of start blaming people in normal tissues issues we have yet to know a lot about this particular buyers but hopefully with get through it and get past and get back to normal normal R. S. relates to the shootings in the in the writing and protest in after a minute of very large police department I've had to deal with police unions both went please shooting individuals and I've also had to deal with individuals shooting police at the end of the day the both had families they both deserve depot deserve justice in to go to the family members of each side and seeing them crying young others young wives and things of that nature it is not an easy task we've seen something more recently about George floored not dead the numbers do not believe that this particular office really not him their situation properly but with the instant film now they showing from the beginning before he was on the ground and there are certain protocols out there arguing terms of delivery please first of all you open a please do what they say but there is a way to come back again not only you can file many types of of litigations against Tembisa based on their behaviour but a lot of people get caught up into the internet that the usual about me which still with having someone put on his neck but that period of time almost nine minutes and yes we saw what happened as a result of it but the the protest which I believe from freedom of expression peacefully and gamble the protests of gone from protesting to violence were more as of being killed or taken every result of what has happened then prior to George floor in terms of this particular issue and so that consumers because different organisations have infiltrated for example black lines matter to you wonder do black liability men weather is in New baby grow that was showing your not right police officers or the eight year old like maybe growing up and it was June shop not bad police officers arm businesses letters this is being burned by black people and white but was so it is transferred from a a protest a rightful protests too now literally want to take over city blocks they want to deny police and fire rescue from coming in and doing their jobs they want to continue to businesses take over with just be unlawful there's a whole different issue and I don't think there's something that just happened I think there's something's been building up in their line lot of a lot of groups and organisations who are again if we traded into them of people's feelings and now it is going too far from deer statues down related to or not related to the confederacy to even taken down a statute or demolishing the stage of a project done so somehow something got lost in between here and we have to not have a motive in this we have to do it a look at this in a very responsible in a verifiable way thank you so much will definitely come back to you in a few minutes but let me go now to Donna Brazile let me get you to address the question if you still remember when it was absolutely in fact you so much and thank you skip in my my brother Glenn and everyone else I miss you all this is been a I try for that my name is called bed which is a part of the programme back on what we've known for Scotland to help discourage in our community economic disparities in equities in our society requires the murder of George flawed in so many others economy debts now bothering where black and brown citizens are are on the verge of being evicted and not having enough resources that paid a park so it's been a sum of grief of loss of mourning but I remain hopeful because seeing those young people who take to the streets risking their own lives so that they can have a future a future are gave me a lot folks the majority of those are both protesters were peaceful they gathered in the evening in the morning because daytime and justice in the one it as something bad to happen and so I hope it does I received in the urgency that we saw just weeks ago I hope it continues the dialogue in conversations people buying books reading package trying to educate themselves on how to be a anti racist we have so much more work to do but I have to tell you I hope I get to come back to this sort of behind the test was seen in a district of Columbia their call back test or here we represent black people represent less than fifty certain fifty percent of the population that we make up more than eighty percent of it and I felt like I was back in two thousand and five during training when I was bringing a government official delivers insane help you what are the with the mobile testing we need to insure that our students have access to private I thought like I was screaming at the world and the brand extension to some of the inequity and we can't forget that people are still suffering and their current any help and the rich do the mortgage is due let your bill has comments the cable bill is due Exxon is still not there you know what be going out of two hundred four hundred to six hundred dollars we need to address the additions and we need to continue to talk about thank you so much Donna Brazile now near attendant hope to commemorate the earlier question our the perfecting you and how do you see it affecting society they are the best in society that is Neera Tanden are you there let's let's just give it a second HM I am sorry joining us every course then I am honoured to be with such a and steamed in and then that provoking group of people so I really see these a I do these been Democrats as twenty index as well into related and I was slowly and with deep deep distinctions said we are in a time where pointing to the latest CDC data one in instil react people affected by conflict in the country is Latina or Latino or eleven X. and when in fact are are black Americans as soon it is in evidence dependent magazine I really disproportionately affecting people of colour I don't like to think that more substantially at the virus is making me rethink equity revellers because I think the virus is a test your feet in like an like many of the catastrophes we visited the national natural disaster in the sense that it's different from the kind of disasters we've faced in the past like a superstorm sandy or the economic races because it the virus itself makes as experienced issued face a I recover from the virus I thought a lot about this challenging in really when you look around the country what we're seeing right now is the individual decisions people make can affect communities can affect the country and what does that mean it means that if a person is forced to work and work faces this decision because they don't have paid labour for six days this is a decision of working versus taking care of their health that said that's a decision that hurts all of us we want people to be able to stay home when they're sick because it protects all of us if they don't it are are in a sense shaped by their decision when people don't have access to healthcare they don't have access to testing it makes our website when people individually decide I'm not gonna wear masks what is happening in large parts of the country it affects us eyes so I I hope actually from the areas we create the sense it it seems like we're going in the opposite direction in many parts of the country but I have created a sense of shared fee and set it gives us a sense that we have surely have to act collectively to solve these problems in when we failed to do so that herds people who are vulnerable in our society that group because of white privilege is people of colour you do not have access to this help your system who do not have healthcare resources day in and day out there white stick so I think this issues are very much joined about I am I am I'm optimistic about a few things one is the multi generational and multi racial and protests they have responded to the murder of George flooding and essentially they deep racism within the country but also I hope the virus makes us strength in these aspects and shared fee but we have it in respond in real policy way to try to rob how's the ways to their thank you so much and let me just say how happy we are that you have survived this virus and are with us today with your thoughts welcome again already we'll be back to you on some of those thoughts in your hopefulness along with the hopefulness of some of the other panellists but let me go now to show Michael signalled insurance Sir Michael let me have your thoughts on how this pandemic has affected you and the things that you care about I mean I I think obviously impacted as everyone's already sky African Americans Hispanics the most I every week every Saturday I should say about five or six of my close more brothers we do this week we don't call and from our our tourney some lawyers into actually doctors and we've been discussing with going on we've been discussing the pandemic and we've been discussing how it impacting our community really large but also how is impacting people we now have a great uncle and Atlanta right now in the hospital I dealing with cold nearly eighty years old now I'm painfully appears to be making a recovery when they just goes to show you that if we don't know someone directly impacted by release when it to individuals who info at I've been thinking more about the health disparities it from a policy perspective to an elite programme then I will be doing well their own disciplines to try to figure out what we could do I too am Lisa push the needle a little bit forward as millennials for the generation behind up which would be twenty and so we've been talking about ideas and ways of working with different organisations to figure out how to craft better policies to direct better wanting to more community based hospitals to provide better care for African American I think them being that would also explore is perhaps to do better eating habits are in the actual American community now in order to do that you have to have access to better food that another discussion are there we can discuss in debate in regards to making sure that we as a community of people or more healthy so as we add another hundred years from now perhaps build another virus now we'll leave have the immune system to do so and finally I would say that another thing that I've given a lot of consideration to it perhaps really trying to focus more on I signed the mathematics so there will prepare our kids to go on to be doctors I was just reinstated about two weeks away I believe from hardware that indicated that there is still a significant shortage of African American doctors in this country individuals were from our community want to stay on our behaviours and trends accelerating to be able to I guess with that experience better provide care for us and I think not having all of those things impact that disproportionately as we are faced this pandemic info I'm just primarily concerned that as we talked about this week we get full lost in in in the politics we get so lost in the wage issues and very strong that we talk about warranty traders and analysts media planning for money here there and maybe in two years we forgotten about it I'm talking about a long term buy your ten year fifteen year plan if they decide what we're going to put in place when I look at the data we can look at the research into the private there we are making to ensure that this never occurred again I think that's how you you provide a link button to solutions for the problem I instantly hopeful I'm when I got to tell you and just really really concerned about how this would impact a lot of people know that till I have so many of my friends is in their grandparents and other older relatives impacted by this there's not much that we can do any immediate but I think there's a lot that we can begin to discuss the prison necessary steps in place to do something in the long run okay we're gonna come back to some of those to my god thank you so much and we're glad you got back from Porta Rico and conference make are because we are hard to go out to people in countries like Porter regarding the suffering so much from not only the virus but from the weather but we're glad you're glad you're here so finally last but not least I'm David Brooks and if you don't remove the question it was how are these twenty pound them expecting your in your perceptions about equality and justice in our country yeah I found it a shocking you're a you know I I go to what skip starts off with inflexion point I think you need twenty twenty will be looking as an inflexion point of the same magnitude is like nineteen sixties progressive era of eighteen nineties inflexion point happens we don't just give one or two epic things happen once you get four five or six everything's and so I think we had we failed to be dependent with an economic recession depression the killing of Georgia Florida racial reckoning the rising the new generation one incident rising the social justice movement the rise they shift I think the political realignment with a mass shift toward the democratic Party all these things happen all at once and sugar culture and I think some of them to see the the killing floor and then pandemic just emerged as a nexus central and American culture and American institutions for a while people and it destroyed our trusting each other it came as an emotional shock the number of people who are depressed is three times a year ago eighty percent of Americans think America spinning out of control and so this is one of those moments where you can either make it or break it in other pandemics run I think we broke it up I think you look around the country anything we can't trust each other act as a social body to put on a female and so that is has been a shockingly depressing thing for me who's who's always find America decline at all over sold but now I really think America client in the fifties the two the best thing that happened was a lot of education on race and somehow in a fragmented society race has emerged as the racial equity has emerged as the keystone issue and that if you don't fix the inequality of wealth and income or the other in inequalities somehow you can't put America back together again and so I I go back to the question Charles S. if you minutes ago why this time why did for create this epic response when a lot of the other ones did not and I think people somehow sense that we are under threat in the way Floyd was under threat and the races now somehow emerging as the key there to some sort of recovery thank you so much David R. let me just say before I go back to the panel to get you to react to anything you've heard of anybody on the panel wants to respond to something they've heard rather than my next question just let me know raise your hand because you may have heard something you want to respond I have number of things here I'd like you to respond to that let me also tell our listening audience in our viewing audience there if you have questions I think there are instructions about how to submit them and we will go to you once we have finished arm discussing are these various a with the with the panel so let me first ask the panel in general have you heard anything now because you the think twice or causes you to think in a different way does anybody wanna to respond to that I can I borrow you can raise a pen will go to you I just want this is nearer follow up on something that David Brooks said but I've been thinking a lot about a you know asing we have to understand why we've had the past movements we have I I think it is important and restrained that we have had the two largest scale social protests in American history in just in just size and scale at around the dignity rates of people like Americans in June the women's March at the start of the trump presidency and these two events have happened at a time where during the transition restriction where people aged staking out away from him people have felt in assault and their dignity and I actually think it's hopeful there people are using protest and in a you know civic engagement protest to to to demonstrate their opposition in we've actually seen it was on twenty eighteen large scale and large scale increasing voting and we don't know what will happen in twenty twenty but to be optimistic for a moment well when I go in there yet little I just think that people are engaged let let me get you to tell me when you say people have felt an assault on their dignity when are you talking about I think I think that women in the women's March was in part three because women that then a president who is accused of assaulting or or in attacking women and was misogynistic they were shocked by the selection in the day to do the streets and I received with George Floyd and then people you know millions of people sat there as a the the percent of the cation ever have leasing system there treats African Americans black Americans as something a group to be police not to serve but I think they're also took place in against backdrop of you know over and they're only reason I'm in the country then you know has been exposed by politicians and political leaders infact fact president saying racist thing and I think that the I think that I think these things maybe be connected I welcome the service of others Is an accident that these two large scale protests happened during the treatment morning jobs well you have to say about that well first of all I can't speak for all black people are speak all people imitate from mama a racism in in the Hague and where it's been being treated at the moment for president trump came into office are you a talk about the four for accusations about women well we all know that they happen on a Democrats Bill Clinton in the history there so I I see the more but spiritual thing happened there's a breakdown in the family there's a breakdown in how we treat each other with there's a breakdown where the politicians are not delivering on what people have been asking for for years and years black people have suffered for the past forty fifty years under Democrats so called leadership with a Democratic Party was the first they weren't they were the first to get the black vote but then they would leave them behind after everything away chin their frustrations been going on for years and years and years of the let me get to stop right there you've made a strong point Donna Brazile getting respond to that why is down to pick up the pieces when they been broken so badly that they discussed not just about partisanship and I understand where Brian is trying to come with his his history but it's just not correct one is happening now has been going on for centuries what we're seeing today is a recommend I've phones that have happened under both Democrats and Republicans unless we address it unless we start to address structural racism income inequality unless we get at the heart of our education our dispiriting education in the prison to other school prison paperwork we have many two separately address whether it's under a democratic administration but I'm proud to say we have made made our lives better or Republican administration there continues to recluse with this is not just about hardship is the loss of faith in our institutions lots of photos we describe our of our country in its people feeling that they have been stuck up and they have the take back to their own self worth in order to get things done okay look we got a huge chargeable because you were saying a few moments ago when you opened at there are the protest a dying out so let me get you the respond to that in the context of the discussion we've just heard between are Brandon Jones Donna Brazile what but I wanna make up the protests it would be encouraging to see it everybody it was properly eight everybody knows about community fights in the issues around there all the work that people internally to happy doing for ever to deal with you both which is largely born out of a of party open in the rise of concentrated poverty particularly because six right but that would be good what we want people with black people have been saying though is there violence from the state is a special kind of but when the police do it when all the power of the state if this special kind of out I've actually brought me asking if I can get it another resource that two by people how to avoid this type of crowd make that on one on the the existence of people with the police audio active because it is the bank the status everyone the killing on back just happening in the neighbourhood they often happens on the street the result of a minor traffic stop isn't he right about that burning joint well is this special counsel with white people killed black big if the special counsel by this when you call now one one in your African American the police response black or white because black officers have curable black people too there's also special when you have black people for no reason no run to keep police officers including blackly Cyprus's for no reason whatsoever so this we can get into these categories were special was not special I'm here our only problem to solve the problems we have violence how do we address that rounds in we've had not been part of this being facts and facts are stubborn we have school board there primarily run by majority African American you have seen these don't have African American mayors for using using years they're failing in schools and the feeling instance there there is not reason you can't blame their operations so let's start with the person in the mirror first I think everybody will happen with job the take your pain with the what's the name of the everybody wants to but when you want to talk about racism recently when someone will ever gore's characterise you they define you they're a confined you in there definition we now they think for you now the time when you get up it took when you go to being determined we should work they tell you which you go to school and tell you what to think in who to vote for okay there is this braces okay let me let me then go to this question how is our leadership are national leadership how do you assess are national leadership's responses to these twenty endemics because every time I turn on the television I hear some people accusing the president of racism I hear people accusing people on the Republican side in the Congress of racism and I hear this back and forth like this so how do you assess this I mean how how do you come out when you come out on their you racism is when you spend billions of dollars and you give the big banks money but the small community banks and the money already on bags get nothing and therefore minority owned businesses will not have access to resources racism is when you provide resources to hospitals in the suburbs with big city has been the city don't get the same type of money so we can look at this from the lens of politics and power but this is not just political is somewhere else structures set up where benefits does you already have and not provide resources to those who do not have anything when I grew up in the weekend will suffer when a child right my grandmother used to tell us we couldn't afford to get sick we could not for due to go into the doctor and therefore they gave us a now and probability when we had no access to help you why is that my both of my worked I mean that's the that's what we're dealing with your water system that does not provide resources to list an easy to return to the pour yourself up and we're going black mirrors of working people's it you better do it all but with nothing we need to have access to the paper resources that everyone else in order to make the improvements within an community okay so David Brooks or anybody else who wants to respond as high as I can see all of you simultaneously but doesn't the national leadership helps some responsibility in terms of what done is talking about as well as Vernon Johns leadership means trump administration itself by national leadership at the moment in that the staff in the response to the bend and make is in my view watching symbolic than any other nation under the wire rest of the for us I'm recieving worth you know worse some nice spent a lot of time in the last five years in trump supporters probably maybe thousands and efforts that is to say trump is the wrong answer to the right question because a lot of their lives have been alienated they sat there was a game itself the code he was seventy he told me about the best day of his life he was thirty five informing the plane he was laid off because they don't read it machinery couldn't be for many more and so trying to get out of there quietly and he won't let his office store in every single point in that for did you maintain a double lines between his office storage card or in the parking lot anyone through it and therefore the mall where was the best deals like it it's the refund every other job I've working similar from the sky transaction but I've got a support meeting only shot I guess and so I sort of had some sympathy with their when I travelled in SO or excuse me of a racist to support him sorry about that PBS and you know you gotta be able to have a a lot of races relating and so my view of people who are supporting the gain is much darker than it is directing your view of the country because of that and so it might have been interesting to words which are there in five thousand your account comes as been a catastrophe and I say that as someone with who's been mostly mum the conservative side of things all these years but this is not what I signed up for what do you think about that Sir Michael you were a Republican so basically I think you got yourself an independent now but what what is your thought about that I of the country at this particular moment where so many people and we just heard and all the statistics show us their African Americans and other people of colour I guess we say black now and brown aren't the worst off in yet there is a crying need for leadership that doesn't appear to so many people let's put it that way to be racist I'm not taking into consideration the disproportionate impact on these people really I I agree with everything Davis said I mean I think which one doesn't seem to understand what the president sees that you you have a letter back just to serve the people who bought it for him and there's been something that it is sort of starting immediately has been able to recognise a good over that hurdle I mean I I think when you look at all the other candidates to currently present and to work for one and was going to work for another one before became clear that trump will become the nominee already I we could have gone with with any one of the more qualified in from my perspective I don't think the president has done anything that meant both the calculator at not anyone of those other individuals could have been able to do accomplish with less damage to the institutions of the country in less damage to our individual relationships and then in this country and so I think but for the Republican Party in the you look at what happened in in twenty eighteen and a the loss of suburbs by by large numbers in able to catastrophe for the Republican Party I don't think we're going to want that back any time soon when you look at polling day different people gather another other entities and you ask millennials in generally particularly just before coming of age in the era of trump about the abuse of the Republican Party nearly every single thing there still shape with the GOP is a negative I'm not sure in the house the National Party or state party room local party if you're a Republican how can you be effective politically it when that time with those types of numbers in this climate which with this president Alec I do believe you got out back with the balance of life in balance and everything is important I do believe having a healthy Democratic Party may help you Republican Party I think it's from my view that the best way to move our country forward but what happens when one party is clearly moving in a direction that is so far removed from where I would argue the majority of the country I want to go and if I am I am sorry to cut you off but let just back to Brandon Johns on there because but I want you to respond with to what you've heard from both David and Sir Michael and also what is dominating the news these days is when the president referred to the death of so many people on the virus as it is what it is I mean tell us about how you can support give me your reaction to that let's put it that way R. for all I'm I'm not very enjoyment I know I don't know yeah I know about it sorry sorry but limited is this are I'm more independent if you will I'm really for whose for me it may be clear I am from for me and my community the Democratic Party has head after American vote online for the past almost sixty years and more recently I said aloud last thirty forty years getting added percent the democratic of the black book in the past the past thirty years now black book in you still talking about a we shall overcome well what is happening with given them out the address everybody's issues except Erica American issue because without captive give our listeners nothing we're talking about Democrats because we have given them out both in and year out and we've been through a side the highway years and you're out now when I look at the current administration with your opinion you can't see it you keep should it you can't slap that is a unique experience in a separate deal with it when you look at how government works the president can not tell everything in this country how to do things you have fifty plus date then you break it down to account the breakdown seeing every state has different ways of him this pandemic moral common among his brother governor Cuomo he made a decision not present he made a decision democratic governor seeing those covert C. instance and patience to a thing is in effected them New York the number of seems that correct result governor Cuomo last night the president not Congress policy you look at different school systems every school's founder only wants to go this way one was to go that way well guess work that's part of the problem there's no one size the feel of so I look let me just stop you right okay very quickly because I want to get a response to what you just said going on remember I know sorry some I got I wanna Mister Jones not moving up to finish his sentence the charity years there in Georgia we have a hundred three hundred fifty nine counts for example all one hundred fifty nine county school system different all one hundred military overseas over three plus thousand CD's years since have their own way of doing things in then you have to go that's what makes this so complicated sometimes others don't so what right that's what complicated situation don't you're saying in effect that the national leadership isn't necessarily to blame for a lot of the problems that we're having now specifically as they relate to the virus and the rise in the number of people who are affected and dying that what for the national provided on me the stakes would resources whether money whether there's been bringing in our military basis bringing like the ship for hospitals beer the army with their operating separately because the different levels of government which goes elections right now different people some states you can move away from here not merely in some I I don't we're going down in a minute but I I think I got your point our new attending you want to respond to that I just wanted to briefly say that the next dates as unique in the world to have fifty different devices this is a decision by the administration of the decision by the trump administration to have no national plant is seeing all the power to the states it is simply inaccurate to say the federal government could night at that Germany has a similar system to ours the leader of their country guaranteed credit engage with their basic states informed a plan we're not doing it is a statistician added to that with deadly consequences people around our country in devastating consequences to the folks who are disproportionately affected which are black Americans and let next America and it's not about that it's a decision I'm sorry trying to global you've heard both are running Jones and I'm your attendant respond and I want you to respond to what you've heard them say and also to the question of how important is national leadership in all of this you you've heard that it's important for individuals states and so forth to respond according to their needs but how important is national leadership and do you agree with what you've heard other than John sept but I'm not a responses Mr Jones okay with all due respect to speak like that like with the ability to be fact checked against just acted in you don't we just been this hope helped with the work with which you say and it's just not sorry not true because of the words that was so I'm just not gonna do it well I will what you think is important right just like this one but there is no effective national policy and there is a people to die and bad is just if fact right we do not have enough testing having national policy around testing to regular to the degree that we needed for our country right we are getting ourselves double check that we need with nowhere near that there is no national bath mandate of the week no but math will prevent me from getting greatly reduces the chance that the press one there is no national medic both schools will return mail of business groups have different policies they also be put pressure being put on them by the president himself back home better device today if you don't open the schools regardless of where you are we might reduce the federal funding the properly diagnose your status to your district is tremendous pressure on their backs but this is not happening with outlook this is happening because of the problems not one company when we had a couple of bullet death under banked people tickets going for him to basically be taken out what does a hundred million fifty thousand people I don't would look big was a world but there were few people congratulate your rest of your sixteen thousand Americans fifty thousand right now in the hospital about I think that we something wrong happening what the guy to die and they are a lot of the the business administration we don't use the top about that in sure I know why now in terms of national MA the house democratic leadership on the net Jim Clyburn in many others day personal heroes heroes act which contains my full statement will government schools reopened a money in near numbers more than I see the policy walking is panel money for above the economy money for hospitals for its it's been languishing because sometime account is only concerned about working right wing judges on the federal quote and so yes it is national leadership David also mentioned in the month of June black unemployment among the jewel we also fifteen point six percent unemployment ten percent again there's been a failure national leadership to understand their within the national testing strategy on national treason strategy a yes I'll state local governments need the conserve resources to respond to this pandemic that's the problem we don't have leadership coming from the warehouse House directly right on a profile level I grew up in a cell I would Democrats only came to my point twice I'm proud of my point I'm probably then provided me the first generation of African Americans allowed me to raise my family history basis you'll get four hundred years I have not wrecked I'm the first generation report I have several right because the Democratic Party we fight with the Democratic Party for the values in what we want I'm not certain in order to supporting which is appearing in some form translation I am fine each and every day for justice and equality to make my point your strong appoint a better point but it's not who I am as an individual as a black one I am someone who believes and just as an equality pop up and what I would do a credit unaffiliated I want to make sure that my country is up to the stand that other constitutionally annotated in there too I am a Democrat I offered two democratic leadership was done this wrong and that one I just want to know is a black woman who rose to become a chair of a party according to group apology set down for I just wanted to personally that we are changing that by and will not sit down playing markets thank you so much I wanna hear moaning joined joins response but only done are you there yes but in Johns yes sorry I want to say this is not personal for me personally okay we got it done with bill limiting thank you I was really for white cinderblock black suitable action with no indoor plant my peers don't go past the third grade on the other side let me when the next time during the week unless it was a school teacher or preacher or the funeral home directed never sold like doctor or block or black line to I get the council to do corporate America my parents taught me hard work with space based and you know what I voted Democrat to with that same Democratic Party was against freeing the slaves that same Democratic Party started the civil war that same Democratic Party was like mark saying he was a Democrat who set out to genocide black men and women little sister was black when we could have they could have been a part of nature it's saying they're seeking how does that relate to what we're talking about if you let me finish that's right a joke band see it to you in making up and world is black if you don't vote for him US now to me that's not a Democratic Party there I feel that represents me for sixty years if you say you try to change the price of something wrong with the bigotry and they don't accept independent African Americans with African American conservative me that's how we raising us out and you know that's how we as you see yourself in industry what is party is now ninety percent of our books for the past forty years nine percent the person ministration bombers F. eight years what did you put a black female Supreme Court he had to there's never been a black wow because the Democratic Party get on both all the time one wonderful if you have any time free but you know where your well the apartment right what I'm holding down a full time Mister Jones less both of you make this brief so I can get the near antenna and my final question before we go to the yes one of finish our Mister Jones you finish and then Dino quickly and then Nero what respect to Mister Mister Johns when president trump cut back the enforcement of civil rights he plugged the step by sixty percent you you speak up when president trump failed to support the minority business and community development banks did you call Mr trump what have you done over the last ninety days to tell Mr trump and his officials how to help our community address this man doing let me tell you what I did I told the bin Carson I called my house because I wanted them to understand the head of dress these problems and I did that because I believe that we all should be able to call into their warehouse and you're wrong if you're not addressing these credits okay briefly message on just very briefly because I've been one of those for Michael and Mister Anders yes ma'am I'm sorry she can call you back and bombing eight years in office all I did didn't do prison reform with Joe band with the crime your laptop thousands of black meaning women I took them out of their homes to come from reliability improvement trucking back with the first year X. and put a lot of standard those family members better with your family given to me to take up have a second chance in life this president dealers in which indeed increasing black find off money to a store called black how urges or about forty warehouses about ministration of done it they didn't do opportunities are distributed so that that doesn't have a direct impact on the black community is okay to call I'm just about results he's doing it through years when it Democratic Party in sixty years that we've been given ninety percent of the vote I don't give you Democrat or Republican sorry I you both major points missing and then once they respond to both it's game is fearing I'd just say very briefly anyway I think I I don't need to litigate so multiple ways there a downturn president used race to divide our country from Iran thank your people insurance failed to account and protest it asking the people who are protesting and because of the payment of black people and then murder saving you know people deal with this and sells the one thing I would to respond to something to this enters and David Burke said as I do think the president trump has been very easily devices but one thing we should I am optimistic about LV is also created any multi racial coalition against division and M. there ever gamer again there's a T. no better a lot of white people who have shift in issues of race and issues is shifted anything's a possibility who who actually a majority of Americans strong majority opposes and qualified immunity but police officers Ben show called so I do think there is a multi reassure our to the division there is as as someone pointed out is is bringing several in a better bargaining or renters together on racial issues maybe not I but much more closely and I think the division has been actually repudiated and by a majority our economic let me go use David Brooks because I know that you've travelled around the country and you've been watching the polls recently let's just very quickly before we go to audience questions and we have a few years talk about the upcoming election is it's been pointed out in this in a hundred days how do you see these divergent views that we just experienced on this panel in the country and do you see any change as we approach the twenty twenty election the change in the divisions that we've had are being so expressed up to this point others do the racial education when there was saying that is really going to Americans killed fourteen thirty eight percent of Americans said black were disproportionately harshly by police thirty eight percent after George for it was up to fifty eight percent so that's one shift second Americans were able to fear the writing in the protests or you feel police violence more is also journal poll but you know when people feared police violence more and it's not how they reacted in nineteen sixty eight that is a significant ships and spoke to me the best thing has been this moment of racial identification for a lot of white folks and so that we'll see when it goes the second thing just politically you know I think the country is made up its mind and I I think they want a fair contract the little worried that he was up by the by laws about thirteen points now ten or seven so there have been some ships are but if you look at party identification in January of twenty twenty forty nine percent of the American said they lead for the Republican Party in forty seven to the Democratic Party in July first of twenty twenty fifty one percent said that lead to the Democrats thirty nine to the Republicans that's a thirteen point shift that's found and so I I think that is that near said that's a reaction against Donald Trump and I think that's better in a the the part of this year well let me ask you a quickly Donna Brazile if you I'm sure you will recall the last election and how they were there was a assumption they are are there one pretty person was going to win the presidency and everybody just said okay fine and I didn't happen do you think that these statistics that we're seeing now are that do in fact show are the Democrats ahead are in the Republican leadership not making it again is there a hi how do you see there is that too early to decide or are likely is it likely that Democrats are going to become too complacent or tell me how you seeing this why I am worried that the request will become complacent issue mention in two thousand and sixteen secretary quite was up in muscle pose up until the middle of October the difference between twenty sixteen and twenty twenty two David white said they're less undecided Americans today than they were safe for years ago when down trump was able to capture them this race will take it will come down to a handful of states I believe Joe Biden has some advantages and in all three states they're down problem carried by less than eighty thousand boat but what worries me H. which you worried Democrats every day and every night in others is that is you will know which with the pandemic and the way in which we make a cast our balances follow up I'm concerned there too many Americans will miss the deadline to turn in their ballots I'm concerned that they don't understand that they have to have a signature check and verify and yes I'm concerned about long lines at the ports are a very briefly our trials bowl are what you are thinking about this and including the attacks on writing boats it's briefly because when I have to go to our sage in a minute R. and then to the idea so charge blocking you react please we know anything about what's gonna happen in November do everything is moving very able to happen no I don't the people on the hill a just this week were give the task by briefly about all learning experiences already happening we don't know exactly what we will be heard with the some of the things we shocked by what they already heard we try it up we can in the postal service at the same time that hacking building ballot we have no idea what the ripple effects of any of that we deeply we still have ninety days anything could happen in politics in ninety days just don't know I am always worried about whether or not people get equal access to the ballot because I do not believe that they do M. you look we are travelling from the beginning of this country to expend the building franchise from work the founders intended for to be which was just rich white men making system are there but does forces constantly fight back right as one thank you are limited now I I'm we have so much more that we could do and we're not in the chapel so we get making stick beyond the time we have so I would like to now weekly our turn to our sage proposal very bubble give us his thoughts I'm thank you very much your line and limited and my thanks to all the panellists who have put just a lot of provided by dheas and positions on the table for all of us we don't need a habit very unsettling in challenging times with without a desktop and I regret that in fact we're not always able to come together in the old whaling church and houses discussion as we have on some of occasions in the past I want to go a point that my friend and colleague and next door neighbour had real was getting made about this being an inflexion point at the moment we might hope of a sort of racial reckoning the we've heard the intertwining of an unparalleled health been Dimmick challenging the nation indeed challenging of the world the initial response to that pandemic resulting in enormous economic dislocations those economic dislocations of the struggle with the health challenges then coming face to face with an evidence of police brutality and racism American society in the form of George George Lloyds building burger and the rather shocking incident if although to comment are in Central Park of any group of calling the police on a sort of quiet bird watching African American men are then we posed the question are we are a moment of real change are we a moment of real structural reform any genuine response to scourge of this demonstration is on I have some of Charles blow scepticism here there are merely changing the face on a box of rice or boxes zero on a bottle of syrup is not a deep one lasting response to John Lewis noticed it when he said the scars and stains of racism are still deeply embedded in American society or don't we will have the kind of engagement with really fundamentally addressing what you're attending pointed out as the heavy burdens of economic inequality dislocation and the burdens of the pandemic and self following on black and brown communities as well as the heavy first of of of abuse by police in two many places are known occasions I guess for me arm part of what is heartening in the moment as as near emphasised has been the multi generational multicultural and do remarkable degree I think reasonably sustained effort our protest and keeping an eye on these issues and in particular sparking effort to learn how to be better and do better in many different quarters are on does it brings the policy change to the produce the structural change I don't think we know the answers yet but part of it really depends on national voices national leadership and what is coming to happen in the twenty twenty presidential election I do have to agree in many different ways with the analysis third friend and colleague commentator David Brooks is put on the table that we really entered what past if you're like a catastrophic moment I'm surprised that one of the things we believe have touched on in this discussion this afternoon and that is the extent to which are very democratic institutions are under threat in a moment we inhabit I think it right there under threat because of a failure to heal the racial divide in part in the debt failure deal the racial divide in part traces to something that are very Jones has emphasised which is that our government has not responded to so many of the need to manage an expectations of a great swath of the American people principally the rising inequality instead nation in the the livelihood and expectations about the future for so many middle and working class Americans now we can try to debate whether Republicans or Democrats or more responsible for the failure to respond but I see it as the core of our why people are willing to buy in disentangle conspiratorial sometimes even nonsensical positions are ordered by by figures international leadership because they don't know who to trust when their expectations and demands have been R. O. unfulfilled for such a long stretch of time by such a wide swath of mainstream our politics which is not to embrace cynicism which is now to embrace personalism because I have to agree with my good friend Donna Brazile there are plenty of folks who have moved these issues in the right direction in a virtual was way and the broader school closer to fulfilling Martin Luther king's dream but must decide where people really are judged by the content of their character but let me try to do conclude on some degree of a note of optimism and now this this is perhaps where I depart most from our Vernon journal zero net are part of the contest a few is that we have had a catastrophically in response government we could have been much better prepared for the coverage nineteen endemic down we work anyway if we weren't prepared we could have done far more to effectively respond and literally have saved thousands upon thousands upon thousands of lives that we do not have a national testing and pricing policy is borderline criminal at this point that we do not have a national directive to wear a mask is borderline criminal at this point that we have not made the investment and providing personal protective equipment are to our health professionals in front line brothels is borderline criminal at this point given the current rate of spread in the disease across almost all of the states again does point it is deeply grossly responsible to talk about forcing public schools to open at a point when we have not come close to curbing the spread of this potentially deadly disease and have national leaders speculating about the utility of taking I drive a core Quinn or perhaps bleach to fight the disease is something that you're horrified all of us so I don't want to dismiss Vernon Jones correct ask a reputation that the democratic field black phones too often but I do not believe that you can blame this failure at the national level on the Democratic Party in any way it rests with Donald Trump and those who are continued to abet is misguided and too often congenial to racism national leadership we can do better we're in a moment where younger generation is pushing for remarkable change I think David Britain's absolutely correct that the core of opinion in the United States is that we are headed in the wrong direction the wrong guys at the helm and we have to have a change we have to have a change if we want a five day spending make we have to have a change that we want to heal racial divide that has weakened us as a nation for too long I could go on and on and on and try to engage more of the specific comments here but I I think I've kind in many respects what I see the main issues from our exchange year this afternoon so thank you all thank you professor mobile but with any of her the last word from you because we're going to go to a few audience questions and then I'm gonna come back and wrap up our with with the panel so our first question are made up a room I think I hope I have the right a pronunciation what do the panellists think of the overlap between class and race in this country and I know you I did that a lot David Brooks can you talk about it briefly and right now we really do have to be Pete the improved covers almost didn't just quickly who would have thought that two generations of civil rights movement average back walls would be worse than it was at the moment is a recommendation and so that's just the message indictment of what's happened and the second month with the same with wages but the leg is still there and so the the rates insurance classes you just over that to enormous degree thank you I next question it would Monson from the department of African and mac African American studies at Harvard are what modes of organising ship we be engaging in now to a defeat the presidential incumbent end to get covered under control three create access to health care for bye bye let the next communities now would not be able to answer all three of those questions so who would like to take one of those questions trouble I know you the body of work I really have their arguments and RAC Michael the the political part and means of paying to turn out voters I think maybe trials and David mentioned several times in the remark I never pressured me to really focus on those three major keeps one place that president trump barely one in twenty sixteen and particularly need to focus on African American trump won by less than a hundred thousand both of you actually get the data there are more than a hundred thousand African Americans in those combined state they did not turn out you can get those people turn out in April when in November the way in about a one of comments check your voter registration standards make sure that your neighbours and friends in coworkers also registered R. A. M. get more active in social media our and don't remember don't forget that early voting starts in less than a month can I make a quick comment here I'm going to quote Barack Obama prince of timber twenty eighteen the first speech he made at all critical of president trump and he said the end of those to a government controlled by a powerful few a government that divides he has a government the way to the end of the O. two it is a the organised energised and inclusive many so yes we all need to get out there and register folks turn out votes and vote management you have a comment on that Mister Jones are you there everybody wants to go out to everybody to register into vote but it also is when the votes pressure come about is when people make their personal choice that they have to be literally five only one of support and then the rules in the first minute and I want to say two women running their credit force for years we give them ninety percent were broke when are we going to vote for someone who's going to help not all these other communities like black community because again they rely on the black hi and that's the biggest insult into about this if I reduce my great losers always low battery when Democrat we because of our books to be getting to where we are still sitting in one day we shall overcome it's still same democratic forces had out both I just responded sorry I please reply to represent of junk is that okay just quickly yeah I mean the Republic in a long time I have never been Democrats than Republicans and fourteen years old okay and if idea of that we only question asking Americans about forty Democrats we don't question pro white about why the overwhelmingly vote for Republican bill yet are there don't really change much means you are one of the competitiveness in the electoral process absolutely I'd been a Republican again fourteen but I think it's insulting to African American intellectual faculties in curiosity just say that there's somehow I guess it is for only voting for Democrats I think most Americans accept both political parties now the two I think many would argue that choosing the lesser of two evils now what I like to see that change absolutely but in order to change the Republican Party has to make some serious steps that make the point of worry and the African American books I don't think the party has done with the Democratic Party wording does Democratic Party wrote the plan laptop in women it was a Democratic Party president Republican one of okay perfect you what impressed I've been and I give it to you let down of the Democratic Party for the past forty years and they've got nothing for R. A. that is that is a big it's like I have to take over now because I have one final question from the audience and are I don't know who's going to answer this but I think the the lady came on you too want to know she said I think there's a group of young people to are tired of the Democratic Party and will not be voting for buying I think this is a fact being ignored on either nearer or who was that renaissance let all I know what you want let's work down the insurer Michael R. Johns blowers the same or even down who wants them to their near that you yeah I'll be briefly I mean I think we should be interested that a group at anyone not very and it seems twenty eighteen African American turnout particularly African American women jurors churn out of every American women and surged well beyond twenty fourteen and which was in mid term and mid term election cycles with that large scale storage of varying of black voters so I hope that is located it is not a obviously and then we all have to recognise the status of the selection one thing I would say that the protests is that we've seen large scale vote voter drives during the purchase I have S. instructive and helpful as well I would think something of your freedom has network you're good I think it's relevant which is why the premises is the problem right so it's not this this silly back and forth but mostly not even back to group discussion but Democratic Republic Republicans why the has many expresses an offer as a liberal one it has a conservative one but we have to do with that fact but people are what we call but such challenges for a Catholic constituency they they book book mostly for the Democrats because the closely more closely aligned with the with their values are been with Republicans offering M. S. fifty before the last six years have just kind of rejected the idea of the substrate over which which overtly rude literally we're thinking of doing you might get the start make the bank's are you you're talking we want to attract the needle foot the more black people who vote for the Democrats built the network both contracts in over so we get out of this argument about the regatta the democratic quality one point in time and look at this whole thing is the issue of whether prince how do I get the entire system please does that project to expect to stop ignoring me until I screen stop trying to take my life how did your time onto me as a human being fully other women just as creative just a simple action just just what happened but what would be doing is very well the Democratic Party failed to define what is one of the things problems with thank you so much Lee we are everything a person at the moment I think I'm charge I'm going to in with our ladies and sells to who surely is looking with great interest I would hope on this conversation and that is John Lewis who said that ordinary people with extraordinary vision can redeem the soul of America by getting in when I call good trouble necessary trouble anyone on to say boating advertise the painting in the democratic process our key he said also you must also study in learn the lessons of history because you manage as been involved in this soul wrenching existential trouble a struggle for a very long time he said those I may not be here with you I urge you to answer the highest calling of your heart and stand up for what you truly believe in my life I have done all I can to demonstrate that the way of peace a way of love and non violence is the more excellent way now now is your turn to let freedom ring I apologise for not being able to let more freedom ring on this panel but out of time and I hope there are the panellists I appreciate your involvement and participation in your honest and forthright but and I hope that each view has enjoyed your participation and there our audience has as well thank you all